religions / worldviews

Off-topic discussions

Moderators: jacob, Mattmon

User avatar
CuriousOrgans
Posts: 3327
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:45 pm
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Postby CuriousOrgans » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:05 pm

torn_aclu wrote:
CuriousOrgans wrote:where in the bible did jesus say that he was the only way to the father?


John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

CuriousOrgans wrote:or heaven? actually, where did he say anything about heaven?


http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?words= ... h-text=all

Heaven is mentioned 138 times in the gospels, most of the time by Jesus. Yes it is related to the kingdom because the kingdom is called the kingdom of God/heaven depending on what audience the author was writing to (Matthew uses the phrase "the kingdom of heaven" due to his Jewish audience). Jesus was far more concerned with being resurrected on the last day. That's because heaven is not a soul-like Platonic place. God is re-creating the earth and to inhabit it people must be resurrected.

CuriousOrgans wrote:he spoke of the kingdom of god a lot which people think is heaven, but that could easily be a peace and happiness on earth.


The kingdom of God is not heaven. The kingdom of God is the realm of his rule, specifically in the Gospels that God's rule has come through the incarnation of his Son. Yes it will be the earth, but the re-created earth. It will certainly not be on this very earth according to Jesus.

Revelation 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

CuriousOrgans wrote:actually, where did jesus say he was the son of god? if he did, are you sure he didn't mean that he was "a" son of god just like i am? i know the 12 asked who he was and he said "who do you think i am" and they said, "the son of god"


http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?words= ... h-text=all

Didn't you just answer your own question? Yes, I'm pretty sure that he didn't mean what you at first thought. That's exactly why people worshiped him as many of the above Scriptures designate. Yes, all God's followers are called his children, but Jesus specifically calls himself "the" Son of God - he was the special Son of God, but don't make that designation walk on all fours so that Jesus is just a better version of us. Jesus' self-preferred title is Son of Man anyway.

CuriousOrgans wrote:there are a lot of things assumed about the bible that are myths that have been created through the years since it has been written.

for example, most christians (except roy, who is a ho) think that premarital sex is against the bible. but it actually is not. the closest they can come is adultery. which is when you have sex with someones spouse, or you are married and have sex with someone who is not your spouse. if both parties are single it doesnt count. yes, that is historically true, i'll find references later if anyone wants me to.


Seriously, have you read the Mosaic Law? Women were stoned to death for having sex before marriage. It is so foreign to the Hebrew mindset that two people having sex before marriage was wrong that is didn't have to be mentioned. God already gave his stamp of approval on the one husband/wife mandate.

Deuteronomy 21 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then hates her 14 and accuses her of misconduct and brings a bad name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her evidence of virginity,’ 15 then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate. 16 And the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man to marry, and he hates her; 17 and behold, he has accused her of misconduct, saying, “I did not find in your daughter evidence of virginity.” And yet this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloak before the elders of the city. 18 Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name upon a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife. He may not divorce her all his days. 20 But if the thing is true, that evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman, 21 then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father's house. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.


so you're for stoning people, then?

this is so fucked up. believe whatever shit you want to, man. waste your life chasing. i don't really give a fuck.
"I guess you tripped and fell. Then he tripped and fell on to you. Is that what you meant when you said you didn't mean to?"

zach2000
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:01 pm
Contact:

Postby zach2000 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:17 pm

My Jewish friend told me the other night that they don't have a problem with sex before marriage so long as you love the person...

That's what he told me, anyway.

He said the "no sex before marriage" thing was a common misconception, but adultery is very frowned upon sin-wise.

User avatar
torn_aclu
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: Atlanta

Postby torn_aclu » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Well your Jewish friend should read his own Torah. It is clear from the Mosaic Law that I quoted that premarital sex was not tolerated. It really is as simple as reading the text.

No I am not for stoning because Jesus Christ is the new interpreter of the Law and he says that stoning regulations were only for those who lived under a theocracy.

You seemed to give a fuck when you misquoted the NT. Hey, there are a lot of misconceptions out there. I can't necessarily blame you for that. But I don't see why you have to "give up" when things become more clear.

User avatar
i saved latin
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:32 pm

Postby i saved latin » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:13 am

zach2000 wrote:My Jewish friend told me the other night that they don't have a problem with sex before marriage so long as you love the person...

That's what he told me, anyway.

He said the "no sex before marriage" thing was a common misconception, but adultery is very frowned upon sin-wise.

this is odd because fornication is still frowned upon in the bible...
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition. "

-Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
meandthesea
Posts: 8994
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:25 pm

Postby meandthesea » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:19 am

Image

Image

Image
its tiny body is see-through, I caught it swimming inside of you.

User avatar
i saved latin
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:32 pm

Postby i saved latin » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:23 am

:?:
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition. "



-Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
meandthesea
Posts: 8994
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:25 pm

Postby meandthesea » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:32 am

I think my thesis is pretty clearly stated.
its tiny body is see-through, I caught it swimming inside of you.

User avatar
i saved latin
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:32 pm

Postby i saved latin » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:39 am

oh ok...
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition. "



-Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
CalendarGirl
Posts: 2065
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:36 am

Postby CalendarGirl » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:19 pm

I agree. With everyone.
"You expect to get screwed by your company. But you never expect to get screwed by your girlfriend."

User avatar
ansible
Moderator
Posts: 1830
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:10 am

Postby ansible » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:38 pm

Me too.
when I was a boy
everything was right

tarwater
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:00 pm

Postby tarwater » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:05 pm

i don't. i agree with no one.

User avatar
OhYou
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:59 pm
Contact:

Postby OhYou » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:16 pm

^Rebel.

tarwater
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:00 pm

Postby tarwater » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:38 pm

8)

User avatar
ryan_jasurda
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: WI, USA
Contact:

Postby ryan_jasurda » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:44 pm

Alright. I'll admit my last post was a bit extreme. If the type of hell that Christians believe in does in fact exist, than I truly do not want to go there. In my last year as a Christian I became a Universalist for some of the reasons mentioned here. I still don't feel that Jesus spoke of the type of hell that has been created today.

User avatar
KnitKat
Spammer
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:26 am

Postby KnitKat » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:47 pm

I don't know if i'm a Universalist yet. I am an Inclusivist.


Return to “Craft Beer Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests