Mike McCusker wrote:torn_aclu wrote:
If we can be good without God, why do we need God?
Why can't you just be good for its own sake, and leave God out of the equation?
Surely if you are just being good to please your God, he/she/they/it would see that and question your original motivation?
brothermatt wrote:this is the first time i've heard the "depravity" idea. it seems pretty nihilistic. wouldn't some of the motivation be to die sooner to get this world over with? if our actions are meaningless and we only matter if we are faithful, it seems like we're little more than god's poker chips.
torn_aclu wrote:I did say that the actions in and of themselves of people who are not believers are good. But I qualified it by saying that they aren't ultimately good. You are actually the one who is painting things in black and white by saying that an unbeliever who is faithful to his wife has committed a good act without qualification. That is profoundly simplistic.
torn_aclu wrote:Anything that is not done by faith is sin, and you can't do something by faith without recognizing the trinitarian, covenantal God of Christian Scripture.
torn_aclu wrote:"Yes, "our righteousness is as filthy rags" as Isaiah says, but that applies to me too, now, even as a Christian." Where does the Bible say this when the Bible says we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ? The odd thing is that your turned that statement, "everyone's righteousness is as filthy rags" into "unbelievers can do unqualified good things." Confusing.
torn_aclu wrote:If we can be good without God, why do we need God? Experience obviously has a part to play in our understanding of Scripture, but you let your experience totally determine it ("I see people doing good things all the time, so it must be true!"). That is a dangerous road to travel.
SkeletonRock wrote:Emanuel Swedenborg said that there is no good outside of God, and that anyone who does good is experiencing God whether he is Muslim, atheist, agnostic, whatever.
soonersrule07 wrote:remember when we used to talk about real things?
sherpa141 wrote:NOTHING HERE IS REALsoonersrule07 wrote:remember when we used to talk about real things?
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